TBC and PC Specification Overview

Laptops

If you are using a laptop, are you going to use it with a Docking Station - a docking station will reduce your computers capability and performance but gives plug and play. So get a good dock if you are buying one.

Are you using the Laptop Screen only, or are you using the Laptop plus 1 or 2 high res external screens when in the office. Your laptop has typically one graphics card and that is split across the number of screens that you are using - so if you have 3 screens then your graphics memory is split three ways so an 8GB card gives you 2.666 GB on each screen with a laptop unless you purchase multiple graphics cards and multiple dedicated screen ports. I would typically recommend 8GB if you can afford it (or higher) but I would buy other things before going higher that will give better performance.

CPU Processor

Go Intel not AMD and go latest I9 or Xeon if you possibly can. The fastest clock speed you can justify. This has the biggest impact. Boosted single core clocking processors can provide significant performance improvements. This means that if a process uses one core the CPU will boost the clock of that core. If you can go 4 or 8 cores that only helps in places of TBC like Point Clouds / Mass Haul - but if you run multiple Apps - each will take its own Core so having 4 or more helps when running multiple Apps - some software runs more Multithread (=more cores) than TBC so consider those also (like Pix4D etc.).

Graphics Card

Typically you want to go Nvidia or Quadro and then make sure that you configure it correctly. With the current supply shortages in this market you can potentially save money by getting into an older generation card such as the Nivida 1080 or the 2060,2070,2080 cards. Currently Nividia is in the 3000 series, a 3060 should suffice, but TBC demands on a graphics card can be achieved through the older cards listed above as well.

Quadro is a modeling specific line of graphics cards made by Nivida but cost significantly more, without an impact on performance over the gaming lines.

Hard Disk

You want as good a Solid State Hard Disk that you can afford. The faster the read / write times the better off you will be. You need size but you can always back work up on a backup drive if you dont need access all the time, but the SSD in the laptop - I would sacrifice Size for Speed and use a Backup to fill the gap - a 0.5TB or 1TB should be where you start. This will help Boot Time, Start Up Time, Save Time and also when working Large Orthos and Point Clouds you will get faster data streaming.

Within the SSD space you should look at using an M.2 drive that utilizes the PCI slot for faster read/write times, but this has a diminishing return as most software isn’t written to harness the faster SSDs currently. This causes you to see minimal performance gains on the top end with large differences in cost.

SATA SSDs are a great option as a bulk storage device as these have came down in price substantially. With both drives available you can reserve the M.2 to your OS and key application installs while allowing bulk data and generic applications to be stored on the SATA or anything that doesn’t require the read/write speed of the M.2. However these SSDs are still vast improvements over mechanical HDDs.

RAM

After your CPU this and the SSD are the biggest impacts to performance - if you are doing Point Clouds you want Fast RAM and 64GB or 128GB ideally. This will impact performance. I would go Less Faster RAM than More Slower RAM if you have to make a choice - but the size of your Orthos and Point Clouds will dictate the performance you get.

Ram speeds can also have a diminishing return and requires BIOS setting adjustments to be utilized correctly. 3200mhz seems to be the sweet spot for cost/performance (at this time, this will likely change over time). Also check for your CPU and Motherboard Compatibility before choosing faster clocking RAM as some speeds may not be supported.

Additionally, most Motherboards support 4 channels of RAM or 4 RAM chips. It is always better to fill all four slots then just two. For instance say we wanted 64GB of ram, we could buy two 32GB chips or four 16GB chips. We would see better performance from having all four slots used. This effectively doubles your memory bandwidth. Again, check your Motherboard and CPU specs before making this decision as some lower end CPU/Boards only support dual channel operation.

Motherboards

Are another place to be concerned as bus speeds can bottleneck transfer rates between components. This can be an area where people go cheap and then wonder why they have performance issues. But unless you are custom building you don’t usually get a choice in this part selection.

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What are the hardware components that affect the takeoff report speed and rebuilding surfaces? Does RAM help in this?

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RAM and Processor are the two biggest factors combined with your data models and project settings for surface models.

TBC will be faster if you set your project settings to DO not Track Breaklines. It will also be faster with fewer AOIs - for example I see people create AOIs for areas already defined by Site Improvements - they report separately automatically so why add AOIs as well?

Also the number of strata and how many points are in a strata layer - I have seen jobs with 60 strata and 1,000,000 points in each strata layer when there were 70 boreholes to start off with - why do you need 60 strata and 1000000 points for geology - do you really have to quantify every mix of sand and silt on the project- do you get paid differently for all those or have to process every mix differently - my guess is not - boil it down to something reasonable and you will be much faster and the results will not be that different for something that is a guesstimate at best.

TBC does all its calcs using surface to surface for the earthworks and strata - that is slower than Grid or Section based reporting which other products use to create quicker results - I have done both on big jobs and while it makes a difference in the CUT / Fill number because of the noise it generates they are not typically far apart nor does the balance change much at all

For earthworks put down a simple HAL across the site and then add OG with Demo and FG with Subgrades adjusted as surface instructions and run a corridor earthworks report with boundaries at 1 intervals with or without AOIs and with or without strata defined and you can spit out typical site volumes faster than the TIN based Takeoff reports

Alan

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Perhaps a silly question but is TBC limited to the resources available of Ram on 1 stick.

I.E. 1 stick of 32 GB is better than 2x16GB. My setup is 32gb ram (2x16) and I rarely see my memory usage go above 50% when using 1 session of TBC even in heavy lifting processes. This has been part of my hesitation to increase ram.

Running build takeoff surfaces:

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Something I noticed in the screenshot is there is 0% GPU usage. Is TBC using your CPU to render rather than the GPU? I know nothing, just curious. :slight_smile:

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Pat I would recommend that you use all slots available on your Motherboard. Ram today is dual channel so you are required at minimum to have two slots filled. but you will see faster transfer rates from ram to CPU/GPU or Storage if you have all four channels filled. However, it appears that your CPU may be your bottleneck judging from the image.

Here is where you can see the number of slots used in RAM.

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Andy,

There is some steps involved in making sure TBC is using your GPU. You need to go to the Nivida Control Panel, go to the Manage 3d Settings, Program Settings. Then make sure that TBC is set to use your Graphics Card. Usually it is set to use the integrated graphics.

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In this case it is recalcing the surfaces so that would be CPU work not GPU work I believe.

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This would be correct. Surface calculation is through the CPU. As far as I am aware only the display of graphics is off loaded to the GPU. @alan.sharp do you agree with that statement?

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Shane, I am having alot of lag as well and I saw this message. I added Trimble Business Center as a program inside the NVIDIA Control Panel and for 3D settings, Program settings #2 I changed tbc from integrated over to High performance NVIDIA processor. My question, for number 3. "specify the settings for this program there are alot of options to change. I’m not sure what most mean and I don’t want to guess at the optimal settings. Are there any I here that will help my computer in general. Any that will reduce lag when rotating a surface in 3D viewer?

Hey Jonathan,

Generally I would say use global is your best bet unless you are trying to work around a specific issue. Performance issues in 3d could be due to a variety of issues and can be difficult to troubleshoot remotely.

That being said, I’ll give you some ideas that I would consider if I was troubleshooting the issue on my system.

  1. What’s my system configuration? This has a huge variety, if you are comfortable sharing your system specs you can share them and I can give you a general opinion on it.

  2. What’s my system usage when I am preforming work? Windows Task manager give you a free way of observing most relevant data in this regard.

  3. Are my drivers up to date? Verify that Windows, Direct X, and Graphics card drivers are current.

  4. Is it an abnormally large project? What’s the size of my .vce project file? May want to use reference files to reduce if so.

  5. What Monitor config / resolution am I pushing data to?

Let me know what you find and I can try to help you our further,

adding to number 4. turn off “save history”.

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Thanks for your response and interest. Our company is relatively new to GPS and we just started using Trimble Business Center last year. We love it but definitely a learning curve. I am not a computer expert, but with the right instructions or guidance I can usually work through issues without major problems.

Let me know if I am missing any important information.
It’s Lenovo P15 Gen 1 with NVIDIA Quadro T2000.

Device Name: LAPTOP-QBJIBV7J
Product Number: 20ST004DUS
Serial Number: PF2JMLWN
Bios Version: N30ET57W 1.40
Processor: Intel(R) Core™ i7-10750H CPU @ 2.60GHz 25692 Mhz, 6 cores 12 logical
Storage: 987.2 GB
Installed RAM: 32 GB (31.8 GB usable)

Hard disk is Standard disk drives WDC WDS100Y2B0C-00PXH0 Fixed hard disk, with 3 Partitions. One is 260B, #2 is 930 GB #3 is 1.21 GB.

I am currently running two 32" HP32s monitors off a cheap HDMI hub. They are running at 1080x1920 at 60hz I really want to add a 3rd monitor. Based on one of your first posts I was about to buy a ThinkPad Thunderbolt 4 Workstation Dock 40B00300US. This is made for my laptop and is about the best dock I can find. I was going to add a Dell Ultrasharp U3223QE 31.5" 4K UHD IPS Monitor. This will run at 4k 60hz.

I also went in and made sure Trimble Business Center is set to run off the NVIDIA Quadro T2000.

This computer was purchased with CAD in mind.

My project is 400MB. This is way bigger than most of my previous projects. The topo surface I was working with is 90MB alone. It was created off drone data. Every time I try to drag in a file with even 250,000 points, it’s too much for my computer to handle and takes forever. It can upload them but I get crashes and when running a create surface, it bogs. Simply panning in plan view is too much for these sized projects.




Hey Jonathan,

Apologies we are currently in Vegas for Dimensions but I will be around next week, It may be advantageous to jump on a web meeting to try an troubleshoot the issue. You could send me the project data and I can load it on my laptop to see how it handles it comparably.

Reviewing the system data I am inclined to think the T2000 Quatro graphics card may be the issue, as it is only a 4gb card. However I would take that with a grain of salt as troubleshooting hardware remotely is a difficult endeavor.

Let me know if you have a few mins next week and we can jump on a call together and I can try to help you out.

Quadro T2000 is a rather old GPU, and wasn’t that powerful even when it was new. I won’t vomit comparisons on here but I would strongly recommend upgrading that card/system before going crazy with displays or trying to chase down gremlins in your system settings. There are graphics cards released in 2016 that outrun a T2000

I would personally recommend building a dedicated desktop for running TBC, but if having a laptop is a must, I would stick to buying a gaming laptop instead of getting gouged buying a “workstation” laptop. Asus ROG laptops have been flawless for me since 2015 when I bought my first one, but they are on the more expensive side. (I have owned 7 ROG Laptops since)

Hey thanks so much, I apologize as I just got back from work trip. Thanks for looking over my specs.

Bummer about the T2000 Quadro- It was picked out by our computing help company, almost like RPS but for network and computer stuff. They claimed that card was best for CAD but I guess Trimble Business Center isnt CAD. This was also probably 5 years ago it was bought.

All these specs are a little overwhelming. When I search for best CAD laptops I see lots of boasting about multiple cores etc. From my understanding that does nothing for most surface creation etc. Trimble Business Center just utilizes 1 core.

I just bought a Lenovo ThinkPad Thunderbolt 4 Workstation Dock 40B00300US that was 440$ on sale for 325$ it is optimized for Lenovo and it definitely helped a bit. I also bought the Dell Ultrasharp U3223QE 31.5" 4K UHD IPS Monitor. Not for any performance boost but because I hate the way text looks and strains my eyes using a 1080p 32" VA panel monitor.

I really love Lenovo and need it to be a laptop as I have an main office, a jobsite trailer, and my house. All 3 spots have multiple monitors and a docking station so I can travel freely between. This may be dumb but after getting the best docking station lenovo sells I want to stick with them.

There is alot of conflicting information. Which would be the most ideal

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadp/thinkpad-p1-gen-7-16-inch-intel/21kv001bus

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadp/thinkpad-p16-gen-2-16-inch-intel/len101t0069?sortBy=Recommended

What is ideal graphics card?

NVIDIA RTX™ 4000 Ada Generation Laptop GPU 12GB GDDR6

NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 4070 Laptop GPU 8GB GDDR6

NVIDIA RTX™ 3000 Ada Generation Laptop GPU 8GB GDDR6

NVIDIA Quadro RTX 5000

I found the following article They have some killer deals for black Friday. I use Bluebeam, TBC, and the microsoft 365 suite, don’t need gaming or movie. Just the fastest I can run Trimble Business Center without slowing when rebuilding surfacers etc

Best Lenovo Laptops for AutoCAD

If anyone knows of a prebuilt Lenovo that would be best and one that is under 2600$ they could recomend I would be eternally greatful

When it comes to laptops that can run AutoCAD flawlessly, Lenovo offers several options.

"Lenovo’s ThinkPad P Series Mobile Workstations, for example, feature processors ranging from the AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper PRO to the latest generation of Intel® Xeon® CPUs. Memory options range from 8 GB DDR4 2933MHz RAM to a staggering 128 GB DDR4 2933MHz RAM. Available storage options range from a 256 GB SSD to a 1 TB SSD, while graphics capabilities run the gamut from a NVIDIA® Quadro® T1000 4GB card to a NVIDIA® Quadro® RTX™ 5000 with Max-Q 16GB. Displays range from 15.6-inch FHD (1920 x 1080) anti-glare screen to a 15.6-inch UHD (3840 x 2160) OLED, anti-reflective, anti-smudge, touchscreen with Dolby Vision™.

If affordability is a prime concern, there’s Lenovo’s IdeaPad Gaming machines. These affordable powerhouses incorporate NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX graphics, AMD Ryzen™ 4000 H-Series processors, 8 GB DDR4 memory, and both HDD and SSD storage options. A 15.6" FHD display with up to 120Hz refresh rate keeps visuals crisp. And as their name implies, these are perfect for gaming as well.

For a combination of minimalism and power, consider Lenovo’s Legion 5 Series laptops. The powerhouses are available with displays as large as 17.3 inches and NVIDIA® GeForce graphics. The Legion 5 series is driven by either 10th Gen Intel® Core™ i7 or AMD Ryzen™ 4000 Series processors, with as much as 16 GB DDR4 RAM and 1 TB of HDD storage.

If you’re looking for sheer power in a stylish package, there’s Lenovo’s Legion 7 Series laptop line, featuring FHD displays as large as 15.6 inches and ultra-thin bezels. The Legion 7 Series line offers powerful 10th Gen Intel® Core™ HK-Series processors and up to NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 2060 Max Q graphics. Options include 16 GB DDR4 RAM and a 1 TB PCIe SSD for abundant storage.

Each of these lines includes a variety of hardware options, enabling you to pick the best AutoCAD laptop for your needs at a price that won’t break the bank."

Just avoid AMD processors - TBC does not fully support those especially in point cloud workflows

Alan

5 years is an extremely long time in modern computing.

As a general rule with both Intel and Nvidia products, bigger number = better. Newer generation CPUs and GPUs are gonna be more efficient and be supported for longer, so I would avoid anything older than 13th gen intel and 4000 series Nvidia cards. 5000 arent out yet.

For lenovo specifically the Legion 7i is where I would be.
https://www.newegg.com/p/2WC-000J-02UZ0

That’s the second time I’ve seen someone use that card (NVIDIA RTX 4070) recently.

I’m about to build a new PC soon and trying to figure out the best card for TBC

What is the difference between:
NVIDIA RTX 4070 and
NVIDIA® RTX™ 4000 Ada Generation, 20GB GDDR6, 4DP?
Which would be better for TBC?

I’ve also considered:
NVIDIA® RTX™ 5000 Ada Generation, 32GB GDDR6, 4DP
NVIDIA® RTX™ 6000 Ada Generation, 48GB GDDR6, 4DP

But I’m not sure if the huge price tag is worth it.

If you don’t want an info dump or if others want the quick answer, just get a 4070, 4080 or 4090 depending on your budget. The huge price tag of the pro cards is certainly not worth it for 99% of cases

4070 is a consumer grade GPU, while the RTX4000 is the professional work card

Really, unless you’re doing things like large scale fluid simulation, data science, AI, or crunching massive videos (movie production) there is very little reason for most of us to buy these cards. Nvidias main customer for the “workstation” cards are megacorps who buy hundreds or thousands of them and cram them as many of them in a server rack as they can fit.

The benefits of these X000 cards is error correcting memory(ECC), stability, efficiency(lower wattage), and uptime. None of which are things that TBC really cares about as far as I know.

Each of these cards are just faster/bigger versions of their cheaper counterpart essentially. No real benefit besides speed
NVIDIA® RTX™ 4000 Ada Generation, 20GB GDDR6, 4DP
NVIDIA® RTX™ 5000 Ada Generation, 32GB GDDR6, 4DP
NVIDIA® RTX™ 6000 Ada Generation, 48GB GDDR6, 4DP

Here are some benchmarks comparing the higher end Nvidia cards. Even the 6000 struggles to contest the 4090 on a lot of benchmarks. Consumer work loads just don’t really need what those cards provide. 4090 being $2000 while the RXT6000 is like $7000
The value just aint there